Enjoy discussing "William Wilson" on the outer circle. Feel free to ask questions, make comments, refer to textual passages when possible, and make connections to today's lesson on the uncanny. Remember to use proper grammar and spelling.
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83 comments:
I'm confused why William Wilson left the school. I'm just confused by that whole paragraph. Can anyone help me?
what role does identity play in this story?
Maddie
I didn't get it either, it was sorta random
@maddie
From my understanding, wilson leaving school is symbolic of him trying to free himself of his contradictory conscience.
going off Erin O's question in the inner circle i think he was repressing his past. The part of him that has to deal with his parents and his real name. The second William wilson is the product of that.
Maddie and Allison- I think Poe wasd just saying maybe that he had graduated or that he was moving on to Oxford maybe?
Brennan- I annotated about that!! But I saw that William Wilson had a problem with his identity because he was never his own person. He always had this shadow of the other William Wilson looming over him, even into his adult life. He could never get away from that and it greatly effected him.
Bren,
identity is deff. important in this story. I think that it is his desire to be unique that drives him mad.
Dennis
That makes a lot of sense but what did he see that caused this, because that's what it sounds like
I think he was trying to escape from William Wilson..
Maddie- I had the same question. Why did he randomly just leave when he saw William Wilson sleeping?
Bren I think that the role of identity plays a big role in this story. I think that identity also has to do with conscience because when he was doing bad things, his conscience exposed him and what he was doing. When he was exposed he was angry and that also kind of relates back to "The Tell-Tale Heart" because the narrator felt exposed by the eye and it made him feel angry and makes them over react.
Dennis- But he was talking about seeing the other William Wilson's wrinkles (?) or something like that, and he decided to leave shortly after that. I just don't see what it was about seeing him sleeping that made him leave.
Catherine
But he just leaves, it isn't very clear because he goes to another school before Oxford
I agree with what Seth is saying because it always seems like William number 2 always comes back into his like when William number 1 has hit rock bottom and everytime he runs away from it
leslie-
that sounds about right; i didnt understand this story at all :)
Leslie
I agree with you. He keeps empahsizing how he is different from everyone else, how he is special.
I was confused when the narrator was having the party and he was all drunk, what happened after William Wilson whispered in his ear?
alyssa~ I think he left because he finally saw the second william as a threat and saw him as someone who would dictate him forevr so he had to run away from his fears.
Nicole- I saw William 2 acting as a conscience for William 1 by keeping him grounded and doing the right thing.
I think that the other William Wilson is just a representation in his mind, of the person he wants to be and the person he thinks he can be. He seems to admire him, because he is virtually the same person, he just doesn't participate in the "bad" activities that the narrator does.
@allison:
I meant that his conscience always takes the other road. It never agrees with it's counterpart. The origonal Wilson can not deal with so much negative force, always contradicting his ideas. He trys to escape the unyieldingly persistant conscience by leaving school.
maddie- I think that he manifested the other william as everything he wanted to be and everything he wasn't so thats why he kept running away, because he felt inferior and was scared. It seemed more than just a search for his own identity, I think he was running away
Do you think that William Wilson 2 could represent guiltiness?
Catherine- I like to think of that part as the stranger reminding William Wilson of who he really is and not letting him escape his true identity through drugs and alcohol.
Maddie,
I think that Wilson 2 represents his selfish side... which could also be somewhat his guilty side.
isn't wilson 2 his conscience? in human form?
Aaron
Basically Wilson 2 is a projection dof Wilson 1's conscience into a real person
Aaron-
yeah i think that's true, but isn't your conscious always supposed to say the right thing to do?
Leslie- I agree. I don't neccessarily see William Wilson 1 as bad, but I think he percieves himself as bad. So WW2 acts as his "good" side and moral side.
While you were reading did you think or know that William Wilson 2 was actually just one William Wilson? Or did you think they were two people?
oh okay. i was somewhat confused about that whole deal. thank you allison and clara
Maddison
I think it's a bit of both but I also don't get why or how that would work.
clara- i think that is the irony of the story- that the conscience isnt telling him right, its telling him wrong, or something along those lines.
hmm.. does William Wilson 1 realize that though?
Maddison- I read it as if they were two different people, but after the last paragraph, I could see that they could have been one person. I still am not completely convinced that William Wilson is either one person or two.
maddison, i thought they were two different bcuz he made it sound like it
maddison~ at firt I thought that Wilson was 2 people but at the end I started to think that Wilson was just a figment of his consciense.
Allisons-
Throughout the story I think that Poe gave hints that the Wilsons were one person. For example, he said that the schoolfellows had not noticed the Wilson’s similarity or interaction. This, to me shows that they are one person. What do you think?
aaron
But what if he only saw this other person in his head so he talked about it as if it was real
Madison- Well, I feel lame saying this, but I really saw a lot of connections between the Williams and Harry Potter and Voldemort. They are rivals because they have so much in common yet they are connected so incredibly much.
So to answer your question, I saw them as kind of one in the same, while being two distinct people
allsion-
ya that's what i think now. but when i first read it, that's not what i was thinking
clara- i dont think he even realizes that that is his concience, i think that he thinks its an entire other person
Maddison
Hmm good point but, what if it was another person and he just saw him as a reflection of himself even if he was extremely different.
I hope that makes sense
With what Leslie is saying, I totally thought the same thing. I saw a lot of connections between Flowers From Algernon and William Wilson. I think both of them show that you can never really escape your true self.
maddison
I think that it is more of one person and a figment of his imagination. Also at the begining of the story it says Tales of Conscience, so that makes me think that it is one person.
I agree with what Leslie was saying. The actual Charlie would see himself as he percieved himself to be in his mind. Its to help him remember the side of him that was no longer there after he got his surgery
Allisons-
Wow, I have never thought of it in that way! That’s interesting. I can see that but then how would you explain the ending of the story?
by the way, the play was really good. congrats to all who were in it.
Could William Wilson 2 just be the parts of himself that he sees in other people? Like not necessarily his conscience or a part of him, but just the little attribute of himself that he sees in a variety of people?
Can you live without your conscience?
Maddison
Maybe he is killing his conscience inside of himself and is taking out this anger from his youth onto another random person or he sees this man years later at a party. I dont know it's difficult.
Why do you think he is so willing to believe who William Wilson thinks another person though? Does that make sense?
kelsey-
no.
Relating to what Erin is saying in the inner circle, I think that William Wilson destroyed himself but in more of a metaphorical sense. He didn't actually die, it was more of a mental destruction.
I don't think William Wilson killed himself, but I think he killed that part of himself. I think it was figurative, and that he lived out the rest of his life incomplete.
Which makes me wonder, do you think William Wilson would be happier living without Wilson 2 or living incomplete, like I think he finished out his life?
Kelsey
You can live without it because many people don't believe in it.
I just mean that i feel like he would be more willing to listen to WW2 if he thought it was a part of him.
Aaron/Kelsey- I think you can live without your conscience, but you are living without a moral compass.
Kelseyl-
I did not even see that! But looking back, if you read the story through that “lenses” then it seems like you are reading a whole different story. I think that the Wilsons were always one person.
aaron-
yes you can theres some kind of thing you can have with your brain that makes you not have a conscience i saw it on tv
maddie-
which in my opinion is wrong.
I think at first he would tell himself that things are better now that he is gone but he would continue to do all those bad things and still feel empty inside. Unless he learned a lesson from William 2 and started living his life differently but I don't really feel like he would do that.
Allison
But even if people don't believe in it they still have morals that they follow and consciences kind of tell you what decisions to make. So isn't it kind of the same thing?
Kelsey~ I don't think you can live without your conscience but you can live by ignoring it, if that makes sense.
Aaron- Well obviously it's wrong. But think about murder's and stuff, obviously there is something wrong with their conscience but they don't cease o exist.
Nicole- I agree. I don't think that he really learned something through that that could have caused him to change.
Kelsey
I guess that sorta would be the same thing but some people don't have morals at all and they do live, maybe not the longest or best life...but they are alive
ray-
but if you're ignoring it, it might as well not even exist
I think that William Wilson regrets what he did in his earlier years, he end up finding his conscience after losing it. If you look at the beginning of the story, he is horrified by what he did and thinks it is "unpardonable".
ya you're right. but some people are messed up in the brain and get a "thrill" from that. it's bad, but it's like bingie jumping to them.
Helen
so he found it after "killing" it?
Rachel is making a really good point on the inner circle. How much do you guys trust the narrator?
i meant bungie
mrs leclaires question-
i think that the whisper is poe telling you that its definetly a person inside of him, or a part of him. Just to confirm.
Clara~ but part of ignoring things is knowing its there but chooseing to see past it, so you still have one...
I agree with what Nicole said. I think William Wilson 2 could only speak loudly when he actually had something important to say.
Allison
I guess...He starts the story telling you this has already happened to him. I think he lost his sense of right and wrong and it took all this events to make him realize his actions were wrong.
With what Erin is saying it also goes with Tell Tale Heart and the story would be completely different if someone else had sold him out be he did it to himself. It was his own damnation.
Maddieh-
To your earlier comment about Harry Potter:
That is actually a really interesting point. So do you think that the Wilsons are incomplete without each other? And I don’t know much about Harry Potter but do you think Harry Potter is incomplete without Voldemort?
ray-
that's true, but i still feel like if it wouldn't be affecting you at all, then it's not really there..
Helen
Oh!! I didn't see it that way but it makes a ton of sense
Overall, I think William Wilson was a very interesting gothic story. Personally I think that William Wilson and the other boy who also attended his academy were the same person. I think that William saw the other boy as the better part of himself that he constantly denied in order to have in unethical fun, joking around and betraying all of his morals. It is almost like the other boy is his conscience and he refused to listen to it and throughout the story it kept revisiting him and trying to remind him that it is still possible to be morally saved but yet he still rejects it and dies in the end.
A couple questions:
1) What do you think lead him to be so unethical and betray his morals so much in life? psychoanalysis haha
2)Do you think that this story is trying to tell us something about human nature as a whole?
3) In the beginning why does the narrator tell us that his imagination is of the greatest and vivid qualities? Is it supposed to hint something at us?
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