My suggestion for the day: Don't be afraid to ask questions. The book has become fast-paced and somewhat confusing. Clarification is a necessary first step before you can make a strong analysis. I still want to see and hear your thoughtful interpretations, but make sure you understand what's actually happening in these chapters (and any preceding chapters that are still plaguing you with confusion).
Enjoy! You're almost to the very best part--the end!
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61 comments:
Does anyone agree with Dennis? Does Tom killing his uncle irony?
What do you guys think about the question in the inner circle?
I agree with Molley because I think it was so easy for him to kill his uncle because he is used to less emotion and just getting what he wants so it was not that big of a deal to Tom
Hey Kalyn!
I don't think it was ironic that he killed his uncle. I beleive that he did it in just the spur of the moment. Tom was scared and his uncle was threatening. People do terrible things under that stress.
I agree with Ray. The Judge is so blinded by his love from Tom that he can't see the real person Tom is, and the fact that he is so selfish.
Hey Kristina!
I believe that Tom does love. It is a diluted love that is almost non-existant, but still present. I think that what he did to his uncle did have an affect on him, but only a minor affect.
kristina-
I think that kind of goes along with the idea that the kind of person you are is all about the way you were raised
Kalyn, I don't think I agree with Dennis because it's not necessarily irony. Peronsally, I saw his death coming because Twain forshadowed it many times, describing the rewritten will
Do you agree with Nicole that the relationships in this book are shallow?
Hey Erin!
Have you done any terrible things under stress???????
I think Nicole made a good point. The people are really selfish and many of the relationships seem superficial.
Alysa- yes I do, because if you really look back at it, the relationships only really seem to thrive when they are both benefiting from it... does that make sense?
Alyssa, I really disagree with Nicole on that one. Look at The Notebook or some of Nicholas Sparks books. All of his characters have such deeo relationships, you cannot help but feel a deep sense of emotion also. On the other hand, in Twain's book, the relationships are somewhat shallow, but I think it depends on who the relationship is with.
What do you guys think about Tom being weak willed?? I think that he is because he never really had to go through a stuggle to make him stronger willed, he always just got what he wanted.
Hey Kalyn (random laugher)!
Okay, everyone does terrible things under stress. Kel and I have had quite a few not so nice encounters when we were under stress. But this doesn't mean that I would like kill her. I beleive that Tom's stress pushed him to kill his uncle, but it was TOm's character that resorted him to take such actions.
Kristina- Yes, it does. Like Tom and Roxy's relationship, for example. They are both only happy when they are getting things from each other, like when Roxy is getting paid by Tom so she can afford food, and Tom is getting reassurance that his secret will be kept in confidence. Times like these are the only times when they both seem to need or like their relationship.
Kayln, I don't think it was stress that made Tom kill his uncle. I think it was greed. He couldn't think of any other way to solve his problems, yet still get the money from the will.
Kristina- I agree. He was always used to getting what he wanted, and it also said how he was never the clever one. Maybe he doesn't know how to get what he wants for himself.
i agree with Kristina. I think that these relationships are more hypocritical than shallow. I think that if you truly have feelings for someone, you would not change your views so suddenly.
So is Twain then satirizing relationships?
Cat, I completely agree with you. Tom's only concern is himself and he is incredibly greedy. I think he only truly cares about his well-being and his wealth.
Clarao- I agree with you on the he probably doesnt know how to work for what he wants. But then again, there are people in the world today who were born rich and probably given everything they wanted but still are extremely driven.. why do you think that is??
HEY ERIN, WHO WOULD NEVER KILL HER SISTER BECAUSE SHE WAS UNDER STRESS WHICH MAKES HER UNLIKE TOM.
Well that leads back to the nature vs. nurture question. Was it nature or nurture that caused Tom's personality?
Hey Cat!
He could be. It seems as if every relationship in this book could, at some degree, belong in a soap opera. There is always deceit and mistrust between people. So, maybe he is mocking how people bond together and their relationships.
kristina- hmm that's a good point, but i think a majority of those people had to work to get to that point..and they put their money towards a good cause.
Catherine- Twain may be satirizing love more so than relationships. Relationships are random, and happen almost every day, but love is something that pretty much everyone wishes to find, whether they admit it or not. Love is something we all wish we could have and I believe that Twain is explaining that what we, as a society, think is love, is something entirely superficial.
Cat- I think Twain is satirizing relationships. The main relationships I see him satirizing are the parent- child relationships through Tom and the Judge, and Roxy and the Judge.
I think that if one looks at this novel in a New Historicism view, This books shows how temperamental people's relationships are in the 1890's.
Kristina, they are extremely driven most likely to increase their fortune or get more of what they want for their own satifaction.
Cat- i agree. The difference with Tom is that he has never had to work towards what he wants.
Kristina, I think that the rich who are driven are motivated and influenced by the people they know. Tom was influenced by the world around him and it influenced him badly.
clarao- that is true. Like bill gates, he has worked for a lot of his money and uses it twds a lot of good causes. I wonder if there are any rich ppl who are not like that, like people who were born into riches, didnt have to work for them and then still had that drive?
Hey Kalyn (who laughs randomly in class and who never said if she would kill her sister undder stress which makes it hard to tell if she is like Tom or not)!
I beleive that nature is the true characteristic that draws people to do things in life. Again, nurture is important and with good nurture the degree of your character comes out. But still it is all nature and characer in the end. Does that make sense? I'm not sure...
Helen- That's a good point. Tom has been raised with a sense of understanding that he will always be just as well off as he started.
What role does Pudd'nhead Wilson play in the relationships of the other characters in the book?
Helen and catherine- It reminds me of legally blonde because she was born into riches but then someone in her life sparked her drive to be successful and then continued on doing great.
Do you think that this book shows tom as a sordid character because during the time the novel was written, people still had racist beliefs and views that the African American descendent's are born less intelligent? Because he is barely black, he still cannot make the "right decisions."
HEY ERIN!
I KALYN K WOULD NEVER KILL HER SISTER FOR ANY REASON WHICH MAKES ME NOTHING LIKE TOM.
But yes that does make sense and I do agree with you
THIS IS WHERE THE NEW DISCUSSION STARTS!
Do you agree with Maddie that it was "Tom's" fate to be sold down the river?
So: anybody get the feeling that the Conclusion was a little rushed for this book? Why might this be?
Ok, while I was reading last night, I realized that courthouses and used as a motif of false structure and security in a crazy time. Think of this, The Crucible, and To Kill A Mockingbird.
But during our freak show discussion, I realized that the courthouse was kind of like a circus. Everyone in the town went to gawk and stare at "the show".
I just thought all that was interesting. Why do so many authors rely on courthouses and trials?
Jose- I actually think that Twain did a good job of setting up the ending through the whole book. I saw how it was going to end, it was pretty obvious.
I think that Twain might be trying to say that you can't hide your identity. Whether nature or nurture makes you who you are, you can't change that. In the end "Toms" true identity was revealed and I think it was inevitable that he was sold down that he was sold down the river.
Alyssa- I do think that was his fate, because roxy did all she could to prevent it from happening, but it was ultimately no use.
Maddie- That's a good connection that I never realized. I think authors rely on courthouses because they offer an ending to the book. Like in this story, the secret of Tom and Chambers being switched, and Tom murdering Judge Driscoll were revealed and allowed the book to end.
i think that Toms actions are what sealed his fate. his complicated morality altered how his life would go.
Nicole- I agree. We may do things to try and cover up who we are or things that have happened to us, but they will always eventually be revealed.
I've been thinking more on this twin theory versus a double face of an individual. Tom had two faces in the story- he was either the innocent charming young son, or the thieving coarse young adult. He was two-faced. I kind of connected this to twins in a way.
I believe that an identity is the only way you can stay unique in a world so accustomed to routine. In a town like this, the only thing Tom had left was revealing his own identity.
Alyssa- I think it was his fate but also karma. As a slave, he would probably be sold down the river anyways but once they were switched, they thought he wouldn't be sold. Unfortunately, that only made him be a jerk and get himself into all this trouble (nature vs. nurture). So I think it was a little bit of fate and karma.
Maddie- I agree with courthouses. That makes me think of Chicago also when they turn the trail into a circus.
I think authors do this because it shows the false sense of security people feel with the law. People think that it is alwways just and that they are doing the right thing but back then the law was actually very corrupt.
It also might show how the white people in the town needed the power of the law on their side.
Maddie- That's a great comparison! I think that authors use courthouses as a motif/symbol to show how corrupt our society is even in our justice system. Everyone is supposed to find security and comfort with our justice system because we are punishing the criminals, but the authors show the side of the circus to show that we use it as entertainment and us feel better about ourselves.
Seth- Do you think the way Tom's nurture affected his true nature at all? Or do you think it was entirely his nature that caused his fate?
Oh, I believe it was not fate that made Tom be sold down the river. It was karma. If Roxy had not switched Tom, Tom's character would probably be like Chambers, and Chambers would be a total jerk. We can assume this from Twain's stance on nature and nurture. Thus, he would not have been sold down the river, because Roxy would not have been there to force Tom to rob Judge Driscoll. If you remember, the whole reason Tom robbed the judge was because he had to give Roxy the money to buy herself. Thus, the crime would never have been committed, and all of the Judge's estate would not have been sold off to pay for the debt. In that case, we can assume that Tom, like Roxy, would have been freed at his natural death. Not that this makes much sense.
I agree that Toms actions sealed his fate, even if he was never switched, he still would have this rebellious portion even if it was surpressed. He would have been different if he had been chambers forever. He would still be a immoral person. He cant escape who your are like Helen said
when they were talking about how Tom confession was with his finger prints i don't think thats what Twain was trying to imply. I think that Toms body language is what gave it away in the book it says "tom turned his ashen face imploringly toward the speaker, made some impotent movement with his white lips, then slip limp and lifeless to the floor"
Maddison
I think that it was a mixture of both. His upbringing cuased him to think he could do what ever he wished. But he is responcible for his actions and becuase of his imoral descisions, he sealed his fate.
Jacqui- I think it was a combination of Tom's body language and the fingerprints that gave him away. There was no way to deny that his fingerprints were in the blood. And his body language just confirmed that Wilson was right.
I do agree with Maddie.Turley, that Tom has a semi-schizophrenic personality of the sweet child and coarse adult that forms a twinning motif. Yet in the end, it's the part of him that is a coarse adult that is dominant. That's another point I'd like to bring up. In most twin motifs, there seems to be one of the pair that dominates their interactions. For example: Tom dominates his relations between him and Chambers, yet Roxy dominates her relationship with Tom. And if you think about it, one of the twins is the one that kicked Tom, and didn't drink, while the other one doesn't seem to do anything, even in the duel.
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